(no subject)

[godricgal]

Now I had a bit of a rant about this on gijane7702's LJ a couple of weeks ago. Today two stories surfaced on the Beeb that reinforce my point. 

The first one

The second one

Despite being a staunch patriot, this sums up most of the reasons I am afraid to hang my St. George's Cross in my window as I always used to do. 

On another note, if any one is interested; Big Ben has been taken down for a bit of a shine and general love and attention. Forever, the Beeb has used the chimes as its intro to the news. Unbeknown to most, the chimes are always live, not recorded. When the Beeb found out that the bell was to be taken down and out of action for a month, they launched a competition to find a decent alternative for the duration. A young girl won the competition, she suggested bird song. Tonight the first of the tweets was broadcast: the blackbird. I don't normally make a habit of tuning into Radio 4, but I might just for this little piece of English history.

Comments

[gijane7702.livejournal.com]

I really don't understand why you English aren't patriotic at all!! Course I come from a uber-patriotic country, so...

DUDE!!! They better put Big Ben back together again before I get there! I need the token picture of it...hello!

[godricgal.livejournal.com]

I told you why we aren't patriotic, we aren't allowed to be.

It should be together by the time you get here, but even so it's only</> Big Ben so you won't see anything different from the outside.

[gijane7702.livejournal.com]

Good...I didn't want it to ruin my plans for pics!

*still doesn't get it* Sorry...

[godricgal.livejournal.com]

They've just taken Big Ben down to give it a shine and sharpen up the dongy thing. I doubt you can see anything from the outside of the clock tower.

I'll try and explain in person, if you are interested. As you are probably aware, I could go on for a while and I don't want to do that here.

[gijane7702.livejournal.com]

I'm interested...do explain!

I'm at work til 9pm (its 630pm now)...have nothing better to do!!

I want piccy of me and you and Big Ben :D

~C

[godricgal.livejournal.com]

You, me and the clock tower;) Big Ben is all hidden away, but you know that.

I don't really know when it all started. I imagine it was a general decline after the WWII. I'm not even sure whether the general situation has got worse over the last few years or I'm less naive and more aware of the implications of appearing a patriot. My political views have changed some what over the last few years. When I was in school I was slightly more right wing than I believe I am now. This softening has mostly come out of the lessons I think we should have learned from the Iraq War.

Anyway, at some point it seems to have been decided by the powers that be that to show national pride is insulting to immigrants and British (I use the word deliberately here) ethnic minorities. I believe it is insulting to them that they can't show pride for the country they or their forbearers have chosen to live in. (There are exceptions to the last point that I will not go into here).

In addition to that, there is the 'problem' that England is undeniably the mother country of the Union. You are far more likely to find Scottish, Welsh or N. Irish folk in England then you are to find English in any of the others. Plus London is the capital of not only England but the UK (all the other countries have their own capitals, Cardiff, Edinburgh and Belfast). To a large extent I think tensions between folk of the four countries has lessened but it has shifted its point of emphasis. If my personal memories are correct, the height of tension was during the Union wars of Maggie Thatcher's era. I remember visiting Wales for the first time and being shocked to see graffiti everywhere that read 'Fuck off English' or something of that ilk. The current problems were, I think caused by a knee jerk reaction by the following governments to counterbalance that hatred. The UK government started not only giving them what they wanted, but pandering to their every need and request. They now all have their own assemblies, and many legal matters are now their own responsibility. Most new legislation is blanket but holds the provision for each assembly to doctor it to their needs. Because England is the seat of the national government, we do not have our own separate governing body. This means that any laws introduced to England are voted on by MPs from all 4 countries. Scottish, Welsh and N. Irish MPs have a say on what happens in England but the opposite doesn't apply.

There really are two separate arguments going on here but I think they both contribute to the reason that the English are not permitted to exercise national pride, because you can be sure the other 3 do.

There was a incident a few years ago where a pub put in two applications for a late drinking licenses. One was for St. Patrick's day, the other was for St. George's Day. The former was granted without a second blink, the latter was rejected on the grounds that it was too nationalistic.

I really could go on, but I think at this point I'll leave it to you to ask specific questions, if you have any.

[gijane7702.livejournal.com]

Very enlightening...I have a few questions, but they can wait til we can chat...er, tomorrow afternoon?

England is going through an immigration wave and 'they' seem unsure what to do with it. America is a country based on immigrants. We have 1000's coming in every day, legally and illegally-but that's another topic for discussion, and you'll still see the American flag flying EVERYWHERE! Hell, I have an American flag sticker on my car!

Now most immigrants are will to...conform to their new country. My Husband is more patriotic than I am...and he's not even American.

I've noticed in the years that I've travelled over there that there are less and less English in London and the major cities with more and more immigrants, especially in the hospitality industry.

[godricgal.livejournal.com]

The EU has played a bit part in the increase of foreigners in the UK. Citizens of most member states are free to come and go as they please and work and live here as long as they want, that is our law. Odd that the opposite doesn't apply. For us to live and work in France, for example, although it is easier for us than non EU citizens, you have to apply for a visa to work.

Immigration is a hot topic at the mo. I'm mildly impressed that our newish home secretary seems to recognise that it's a faulty system.